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Jason Kiesau: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Iowa Business Podcast. My name’s Jason Keysaw. Filling in for Justin Brady. We’re in the Jethro’s Barbecue Studio. Iowa podcast.com. We had Beth Koonin in with Dentons Davis Brown Law, and she was talking about hiring strategies, hiring risk, and the things you can do is Iowa leaders and business owners to hire top talent in the state of Iowa. Today we’re gonna be talking with the special guest, Mike Barrett, with Corio. And, um, I’ve known Mike for a long time. He’s a leader in the community. And Mike, you work with other leaders in the community, small business owners, helping them develop strategies for selling their businesses.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, it’s really about getting prepared for the largest transaction of their life, and so. I think the business record uh, had a great article here, uh, three or four months ago talking about the silver tsunami, And I know you were asking me about, well, what does that mean? So really the silver tsunami is the fact that every day 10,000 baby boomers turn 65. And So that’s impacting, uh, workplaces, people retiring, and certainly in the business planning, world, that means a lot of businesses are going, to be selling over the next 10 years, experts are predicting anywhere from 14 to $20 trillion of businesses will be sold. And one of the things that we’re seeing, excuse me, a little bit of a cold, uh, You have to appreciate Iowa, It’s uh, one of the few states where you can experience all four seasons in 48 hours. So anyway, um, but experts are predicting, you know, 14 to $20 trillion. of businesses will be sold in the next 10 years. And while a lot of transactions will happen, uh, what the studies are showing. is Not a lot of business owners are actually prepared for it.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s wild as well. Um, you know, back in the day doing business coaching with E-Myth and experiencing, um, some acquisitions myself, um, there’s a lot of stuff that goes into it. Uh, do you have a, do you have a handle on, do many businesses we’re talking about in the state of Iowa over the next few years?

Mike Barratt: Iowa. Yeah. I, I haven’t seen those studies, but you know, you start doing the math on 14 to $20 trillion across the United States. I mean, that certainly means billions of dollars here in, in central Iowa. Um, obviously have a big focus on manufacturing industrial ag insurance. So it’s going to have an impact on the economy, you know, not only today’s leaders, but uh, future leaders.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah. So one of the things we were talking about was the idea of o optionality, and it seems like that’s almost the, uh. One of the key objectives with it. Right. And am I understanding this right, that it’s, I mean, exactly as it sounds is for these business owners to understand their options, uh, have, um, have freedom and choice in how they’re, whether they’re selling it, um, or, or passing along internally or looking for outside investors. Is that, what’s the optionality piece?

Mike Barratt: Yeah, I think it’s a great question and, and so taking a step back even further, um, I believe that preparation creates optionality. and optionality is power. And so, you know, really for a business owner, you know, what happens is a lot of times they’re so busy in the business, they’re not working on the business. what happens is maybe somebody comes in with an offer, they’ve never gotten an offer before. It could be low, it could be high, they don’t really know where they’re at or what we see in a lot of cases, is maybe the owner’s just starting to, to get tired and, you know, uh, has a foot out the door. And they’re just leaving a lot of value off the table, So it really begins with asking good questions and really, starting to prepare. and whether someone wants to sell a business, you know, in 12 months or in 10 years, that preparation is going to lead to enhanced value and that actual, uh, exit happens.

Jason Kiesau: to it. Yeah. Awesome. So talk about that preparation piece. So if that’s, if that’s the gap, right? Um, if that’s the gap in. Being able to leverage or maximize the return on it or set it up for success for whoever’s next. What’s, what’s the preparation gap that you’re seeing?

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, so my role does financial services and wealth management. So a lot of what we focus on is financial plans. And really all the financial plan is understanding where you’re at where you want to go and how do you close that gap and you know, whether it’s somebody retiring and not having a money or. enough money or somebody retiring and living the life of their dreams. The same Thing happens with a business owner. And so, uh, as a certified exit planning advisor, you know, one of the focuses on is how do you help a business owner increase the value of their business? Reduce risk and prepare for a successful transition? Both. personally and financially. And those are two, uh, two important components. And I think the personal side is something that’s often, uh, overlooked. Uh, you know, a lot of times exit planning or business succession planning. Is focused on the transaction. Uh, but really, what the owner has to think about is what is life after the business? And there was a study done by the Exit Planning Institute that suggested 75% of business owners regret that is. decision to sell their business 12 months after. the sale. And it wasn’t necessarily that, uh, you know, as a financial reason or they got a bad, business deal, it, it could just simply be that, you know, a lot of their identity, purpose, meaning, uh, sometimes their relationships, their structure. uh, Being a pillar of the community is tied up in that business. And if there’s no clear plan about what’s next, there’s only so many crossword puzzles or golf that you can do and still have meaning, especially for somebody who you know is used to achieving. and, and performing. And competing and building.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, that, uh, that purpose piece is so big and it’s not only with business owners, but I mean, we could go into multiple areas of life working with, uh, working with small business owners in the, uh, uh, with the business coaching. One of the things that we would talk to them about early on is, uh, reminding them of the purpose why they started the business and letting that be the driver of their three to five year strategic objective and strategic strategic plan, but also. Creating the vision of the business to live that stuff out. So I would imagine if a business leader or owner is successful in doing that, um, that would be quite the, um, quite the shift for them.

Mike Barratt: Uh, You know, it’s a hundred percent. You know, one of the things that the exit planning institute talks about is the difference between a lifestyle, own a business owner and a value creator. And they’re really two entirely different things. A value creator is focused on. uh, you know, how do they maximize the value of their business, you know, are they. Pulling the right levers in that business And a lot of times that comes down to, you know, like you said, your purpose. You know, what is the purpose of this business, is it simply to generate some income? Is it to change you know, people’s lives through the products or services? So I think all those things tie together and once again, you know, if somebody goes and and sells a business and they don’t have a purpose for that next chapter of life, that can be a major issue. and somebody doesn’t want to end up as a statistic.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, and I think we see that in a lot of areas where people are making significant changes from, uh, whether it’s retirement or career changes, or any shifts with that. So outside of the financial piece, the protection and the risk management and, um, you know, uh, helping them get as much out of it as they can, how, how are you coaching, supporting, helping them, um, to help them prepare for that? Purpose void that may come with this change.

Mike Barratt: So really a lot of the work involves coordinating the advisory team, so working with CPAs, m and a attorneys, uh, investment bankers, estate planning attorneys, lenders so that way the right decisions happen at the right time, and ultimately the business owner has, clarity when professionals or the team work in silos, it’s, it’s not really that different than a football team or a basketball team. You know, if you have somebody. who’s a superstar, uh, maybe they’re catching a lot of touchdown, uh, passes or, or Catches, but they’re not winning games. Is that really winning? So it’s really about getting the team to work together towards the ultimate goal of winning a championship. And that championship for a business owner is, you know, selling a, a business maximizing the value, maximizing, you know, the impact, the legacy. all the things that they’ve always dreamed about. And then making sure that when that happens, the next chapter is just as successful for them.

Jason Kiesau: So talk about the, the next chapter, um, when you’re seeing, um, you gotta be seeing a wide variety of, uh, plans. What are, uh, what are some of the things you’re hearing and seeing from what, what is the next chapter for the business or next chapter for the, the, uh, the, the, the owner?

Mike Barratt: Yeah. So, you know, really in the, uh, uh, certified exit planning world. you know, Starting with the preparation, but then once an owner, gets close to, okay, I, I’ve spent time building up this, uh, the value of this business There’s transferable value. There’s a, strong financial plan in place that will support their lifestyle. They’ve got a personal plan. it’s really thinking about, well, what are my exit options? And So, you know, it could be an internal exit option. So am I selling to a key employee? Is a a an east. Operat employee? stock ownership plan. Am I selling to, uh, maybe a son or a daughter or is it an external option? You know, are you selling to private Equity? Are you selling to a third party through a controlled or private auction? There, there are pros and cons to all of those. And so that’s really where, going back to the beginning and the preparation mode and understanding the business owner and understanding, you know, What that vision and purpose and ultimately what they, what they want their legacy to be is so important.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah. And I would imagine the experience of preparing the son or daughter to take it over, uh, is quite a bit different than, um, uh, uh, another organization coming and acquiring them. Yeah.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, what’s what’s interesting about that is a large percentage of especially small business owners, they they want to pass it on. to the second generation. But what the studies show is that 70% of second generation businesses fail. Uh, by the third generation, 88% of the businesses fail. And I can go back, uh, and everything’s gonna remain confidential, but I had a, uh, a client situation in a former life where a, a guy kind of had his foot out the door, was wanting to go enjoy life. But, uh, you know, was, was wanting his son to take over. And you know, really he, you know, he knew that the son wasn’t ready Now. And the thought was, you know, well, maybe in three years he’ll be so, the question I asked was, well, what’s gonna happen between now and three years for that person, or for your son to be, be ready? And there wasn’t really a good answer. And so then I asked you, know, are you investing in business coaching or consulting to help, uh, coach up those skills? Because I think one of the tough things You know, really comes down to this business owner has had to learn a lot of skill sets along their journey to, to overcome all the odds and to, to be A successful business and maybe they, they don’t know how to articulate that, or, you know, it could just be, you know, we all remember when our, our dad telling us to do something and we didn’t wanna list. And So, you know, especially in a family business, there’s a, family dynamic that’s different than, you know, maybe just a key employee. or, um, you know, uh, selling to the management group. So I think it’s really about making sure that that business, owner, uh, is prepared, uh, and also they’re, they’re their next generation is. prepared. And really when you think about it, for a lot of business owners, uh, I think the, the, the statistic is 80% of their net worth is tied. up in their business. So if they don’t set up their, their son or daughter for success and that business fails, that could also mean a failure. of retirement for that business owner. So there’s a lot of planning, a lot of. dynamics that need to go into that.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, and it’s, you know, the, the company I, I coached with was Emmys and the whole idea of the, uh, e myth that stood for the entrepreneurial myth, right? And it was the idea that, um. You know, when people start businesses, it’s likely because they’re really good at something. And if it succeeds, it’s not only the skill, but it’s the passion, it’s the purpose, it’s the resilience, it’s everything. We need to muscle through tough times and get through things and what they find as they try to delegate and hire the right people that finding other people who have the same, call it the entrepreneurial spirit. Um. That’s hard to do. I mean, there, there, there, there’s a certain part of their DNA that led them to start the business in the first place. And I would imagine part of the gap if you’re, you know, especially the, um, the closeness and the dynamics with a family member, that can be a lot of pressure on both ways because you, you need someone to have some of the same, you know, super scientific term here, the same stuff. And it may not just be it, maybe they don’t have the same passion or the skill sets or things like that.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, and on that note, one of the really biggest risks with a business is that the, the business is the owner. And if the business is the owner and the, the business can’t operate without the owner, there’s really not a lot of transferable value. And you know, so when, when another party’s looking to buy a business, one of the things they’re looking at. is risk. And risk determines value. So if All the customer relationships are, with one person, or you know, let’s just say that business owner doesn’t give any autonomy to the management team or the executive team, then, you know, ultimately that’s going to hurt the business. uh, after the sale and Ultimately leave uh, value. on the table for that business owner.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah. I mean that’s part of the value proposition for whoever’s going to take it over is this is the predictability and scalability of it. And we would talk a lot about the, um, you said it earlier, the working on the business versus working in the business and to be able to, uh, prepare in the spirit that you’re talking about. There’s, um. A certain amount of working on the business that needs to happen. But another concept of you have people dependency and process dependency. Mm-hmm. People dependency is the risk. Yeah. Uh, that one big client with that one big person. Um, I’ve been seeing a lot of organizations. Trying to figure out the process dependency. Mm-hmm. Um, is that something that you have seen and you have coached on as you are, um, as you’re talking about the preparation piece? ’cause that can be, that can feel like a, um, less than personal concept if, especially if you’re a business owner that’s. Super relational. Mm-hmm. Uh, to wrap your head around the idea that it’s, uh, you actually have to make it less about the people and more about the predictability with the process.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, so I think a lot of that goes back to the whole concept of the team. And so the way I always, the, I guess the simple analogy I always use is I’m like the general practitioner You know, I do the physical checkup, I. wanna know all the vitals, but if there’s an issue with the heart or the kidney, I have to know when to bring in. the specialist. Right? And so if it’s getting into the weeds of the business and rights, you know, what systems and processes are are best for that business to increase the value. That’s where I’m really going to bring in a third party, uh, m and a business valuation. company. And there’s, you know, great companies here in central Iowa. There’s great companies uh, throughout the United States, depending on what the goal of the business owner is, the size of the business owner, whether they wanna work with somebody locally or that, you know, that doesn’t matter. But you know, there’s a lot of great companies out there because of this silver, tsunami that Not only will they go into the business valuation, you know, some of the firms We’ll give you a few things that you should focus on and you have to figure that out yourself, and that might be fine. ’cause you know, if, if a business owner’s super driven and you know, they, they they understand their business and all the moving parts they might be able to tackle that by themselves. There are some of those m and a business valuation, uh, companies that they’ll actually go through, you know, a a three month or nine month coaching, program. To help, help implement some of those systems. And so, you know That, that’s really where my job is to build a relationship. with the business owner. I’m focusing more on the personal and financial side, but then helping to coordinate all the different people. that are involved in that picture. And that’s also one of the, the issues that, we see is that. you know, and one of the, questions I tell business owners that they should be asking is, do, they have the, right advisory team in place and are they aligned? Because, you know, there’s, I, I have conversations with people in this space all the time, and if there’s misalignment or there’s lack of communication or coordination That ultimately hurts the business owner.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, absolutely. I think the whole communications piece is something that we tend to take for granted. We’re always talking, we’re always communicating, and, um, it can feel normal, even if it’s, uh, a little dysfunction can feel a little bit more normal than it should, which can, um, uh, almost be a major blind spot with them. So. You start. Um, you know, it, it an opportunity for everybody watching this, um, connect with Mike on LinkedIn and, um, Mike shares some pretty powerful examples and stories of conversations you’re having. Of course, everything is confidential, but when you are engaging, um, in this fashion, like what, what would you say the average is? Um. From like a preparation standpoint, like if people are coming to you or you’re engaging wi with, with somebody with this, uh, like on a scale to 10, are they, if they’re thinking about it, are they halfway there? Um, are they 25% there? Like what, what, what do you think the current state of a lot of businesses are that might be thinking about

Mike Barratt: You know, it’s an interesting question and it actually ties into a a recent li uh, LinkedIn post I had. So there was a, a group of people in the m and a space and uh, we get together periodically, just to talk about trends in various industries. share information ultimately so we can help our, our business owner clients. And One of the topics came up, uh, that, you know, why is it so hard for? business owners to go through a business valuation? And you know, you think about some of these business owners, you know, they might have a business that’s worth 5, 10, 20, $50 million. and the analogy I used is it’d be like putting $20 million into an investment account or you know, your life’s work and then not looking at statements for 20 years and you don’t know is, is, is the, are they investments growing. Are they losing money? How are they doing versus a benchmark? So, um, and there’s a mantra in the exit planning, uh, world uh, that exit planning is just. sound business strategy. And I think that’s one of the paradigm shifts that needs to happen for a lot of business owners, because I think for a business owner, you know, they think about business planning as it’s almost a little bit like the death of, of a part of themselves, or it’s, it’s a transaction, it’s in the future. And I don’t know when it is, but I know I’m not ready now. Um, most people in the m and a space are gonna say, really a business owner should start preparing, you know, three or five years before that event happens. So that way they’re pos, you know, selling. in a position of strength And it gets back into that preparation, uh, creates optionality. Optionality is power.

Jason Kiesau: Sounds like a little cubby right there. Uh, beginning with the end in mind.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. That’s a hundred percent right. And so, you know, to begin with the end in mind, you have to know where you are right now. Yeah. To get there and reverse engineer success.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah. And that can be, uh. That can be a hard pill to swallow in a lot of shock seeing what the reality is. So you, you mentioned three to five years prior, are you, um, just clarifying more than, uh, you know, so if somebody is looking to sell their business and, um, whatev wherever it is, are you saying that the ideal like runway to start is three to five years before their. Uh, doing it. Um, what, what, what’s the ideal timeframe to get that business valuation and understand that, that the current state and gap analysis and,

Mike Barratt: yeah, I think it’s a great question. Um, you know, if you don’t know when you wanna sell, how do you know when three to five years happen? So, Uh, it’s kind of like the saying of when’s the best time, to plant a tree? Well, it’s 50 years ago, second best time is today. So I think really just car starting the conversation. even if. Somebody doesn’t plan on selling in the foreseeable future. Starting to understand, you know, what they should, be focused on, what their business is worth. uh, you know, the three to five year thing. And really the preparation thing is is powerful, uh, because you know, in the exit planning world, they talk about the five. Ds. So the five Ds are death, divorce, uh, disagreement, distress. and um, uh, uh, Disability. So, you know, you’re, you’re in this business, you’re, you’re focused on customers, you’re focused on employees. You’re focused on putting out out fires, and one of these things comes knocking. and you’re not prepared. Now all of a sudden, there could be a huge disruption in your business, or in the case of a divorce, maybe you’re having to sell half the business and you don’t have the, liquidity. Or even worse case scenario, you know, a death happens. One of the, the. business owners or partners. And now, you know, the spouse may not know how the business runs and somebody comes in and, and pays pennies, you know, on dollars for what that business is worth. So really it’s about, uh, in, in one of the early stages in exit planning, even if somebody’s not ready to exit, is de-risking the company. So once again, de-risking, uh, de-risking can help, uh, kind of move that lever or, or the valuation of what that company’s worth. And So it could be things like making sure the financials are, are, are clear, right. Uh, it Could be making sure that the, the owner isn’t the only decision maker or that the the business can run without the owner. Uh, You brought up a great point in terms of customer concentration. I had a client, uh, in a previous lifetime where 70% of their business. was one customer. So, if that customer goes somewhere else or they decide to flex their muscle and, you know, get pricing advantages now maybe profitability gets hurt. Uh, So really it’s all those things. It’s just starting to plan, starting the exit planning process years before the exit actually happens, so that way you can focus on you know, increasing the value. Another concept in the exit planning world, they talk about the three gaps, So the wealth gap, the profit gap, and the value gap. So the wealth gap. is the difference between where you’re at and what you would need post exit after taxes to sustain your lifestyle. The profit gap looks at, you know, let’s just say it is, a successful company. Maybe they’re making a million dollars in ebitda, um, but you know, they’re kind of below class or below average in terms of their peer group. So if they focused on the right levers, maybe that profitability goes up. That means more money for the owner, more money Are the key executives, more raises for the employees? And then really the value gap is in that scenario of, let’s say a a, a business that has 1 million ebitda. Let’s say they’re in an industry where below average gets a three x multiple, so their business is worth $3 million. Well, if they focus on the right levers, and let’s say they can move that to above average or maybe even, best in class. and now that multiple goes to six or seven x, you know, you just went from a $3 million business to a six or $7 million business. Now that’s not going to happen overnight. It. takes time, it takes focus, uh, uh, Planning and strategy, but that’s really what that, that, that, I think to me, that’s the power of what happens when an m and a team is rowing in the same direction as the business owner and, and helping that business owner, you know, uh, not only make the business more Attractive, but making sure that the business owners. Actually ready for the exit.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah, so some,

Mike Barratt: was a really long diatribe there, so I, apologize

Jason Kiesau: no, no, no. Clarify What is, uh, did you say ebitda?

Mike Barratt: Yeah. So, uh, that, that basically means the profitability of the business. Okay. So it is an accountant’s term, it’s something that a lot of, uh, uh, buyers look at. Uh, sometimes they look at uh, EBITDA plus add-backs, which could be, you know, sometimes business owners. Hopefully IRS, you know, Uh, might be putting, uh, country club memberships through the business or other things like that. So that, that would be something that if a buyer comes in and they buy the business, they’re probably not going to continue paying. for the, the previous owner’s country club. So That’s a part of that profitability component.

Jason Kiesau: Yeah. Interesting. So the, the theme I’m hearing with this is, um. The key word, preparation, right? Preparation to and preparing from like. Setting the goal is preparing. Mm-hmm. Right. Working on the business, setting the goal, knowing where you wanna go, understanding current state, that that’s preparation. Yeah. And that sounds like that’s just the start. And then another part of what I’m hearing is, um, and it’s, it’s, it’s interesting because this is kind of the story of the small business owner who, um. Achieves the success or identity through doing the work is how do you get outta the way and trust the people around you? Right? So part of this is so, it’s not so people dependent on them. They need to be able to give up control, trust, uh, internal. Stakeholders, leaders, managers, employees, to do the right thing. Um, but they also, in the spirit of partnering with m and a teams and things like that, have a great deal of trust, collaboration, delegation into other people to really be, maximize their success and the opportunity with us.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. And I, I think that’s a tough thing. ’cause if you think about it, you know, as that person’s building a business, they have to take control over everything because ultimately the buck stops with them. If it’s a one person shop or a two person shop, They don’t get to use the excuse of, well, we didn’t have an HR team, or we didn’t have an accounting team. That might be them. So they have to have ultimate ownership over everything in the business. So to do that over decades and to slowly start you know, letting go of some of that control, and really trusting other people, um, you know, it’s kinda like that Ryan Holiday book that the obstacle becomes the way in that scenario, the obstacle giving up control, is actually the way for them to exit their business successfully and you know, get the best value. for their business.

Jason Kiesau: Awesome stuff. So we have a few minutes left. Um, so if you could give listeners three things that need, they need to walk away with to prepare, um, to prepare for a, uh, uh, the how would a successful exit, what are the three things you’re giving?

Mike Barratt: Can can I actually, uh, expand that to five questions I think business owners should be asking themselves?

Jason Kiesau: Yes. Mike, what are the five questions that business owners need to be asking themselves please?

Mike Barratt: you know, I think the first thing is, you know, is the business transferable without them. So we Talked about if, you know, it’s, not transferable without them, they really don’t have a business that they can sell or go to market. The second thing is what is my business worth and why? So once again, knowing where you’re at, where you want to go, and what are those levers that are impacting the value of the business? the third piece? Or the third question would be, you know, will the sale or the proceeds from the sale be enough to sustain my lifestyle. after the sale of the business? And that gets into financial planning, which is where, you know, we live and focus on. The fourth piece is, what does life look like after? the sale of the business? You know, Make sure that you have a. Solid plan of what the next chapter of life looks like. Is that spending more time with family and grandkids? Is it getting into hobbies that you never had time for? Is it starting a another business? Is it consulting? Things like that. And then I think the, the fifth piece, is do you have the right advisory team in place and, and are they aligned? So once again, you know, I think one of the challenges there is people always worry about the cost and the time. But you know, once again, I know it’s an overlay. Simplistic view of, of what can happen with valuation improvement, if that m and a team can help somebody. go from 3 million to 6 million to 9 million. That justifies a lot. of that.

Jason Kiesau: And it sounds like, um, if you can, uh, answer question five earlier that that could make the previous four questions easier to answer and navigate.

Mike Barratt: Yeah. You know, and you’re not going to need all those people initially. It might just be, you know, the wealth manager doing financial planning and, and the m and a person doing the business valuation If the business has a lot of value. I mean, I was working on an opportunity that was, uh, nine figures. and, you know, so we had, we brought in the estate planner, uh, very early on to that to make sure that they started, you know, uh, helping to reduce that estate tax. But that’s really a lot of what my job is, is to know the, the different, uh, disciplines and then to know when to bring in those experts to, to help them plan for those things.

Jason Kiesau: Love it. Uh, final question. You’re, uh, you’re passionate about this. Why, why are you so passionate about this?

Mike Barratt: It’s a great question. You know, one of the things that I, you know, love really about my industry is you get to study success. I, you know, I’ve seen people from all walks of life, all backgrounds, all different starts that have ended up with, you know, massive, uh, financial success. And one of the things I love about business owners is it’s really, uh, a proof that the American dream is, is still alive. I mean, you know, in this Country, we love a winner, right? We love Tom Brady marching the team down the field. to, to win a Super Bowl. We Love, you know, the, the USA hockey team, uh, upsetting the Russians in 1980. to win the gold. And, You know, when you think about all the challenges a business, owner faces to not only, you know, take the risk to start a business and to maybe put their life savings and the the personal and family sacrifices that they’ve made, you know, to me it it’s just, it’s unacceptable that when they exit. They don’t exit on their. terms and They, you know, leave a lot of value uh, from their life’s work. So I just, I love being around those people and, and, and, you know, it just, it motivates me. It inspires me. and you know, obviously there’s a massive need. with, uh, that silver tsunami, uh, coming.

Jason Kiesau: Awesome, Mike. Thanks for being on the Iowa Business Podcast. Uh, Mike Barrett with Choreo Advisors. My name’s Jason Keysaw. Thanks for watching the Iowa Business Podcast in the Jetro Barbecue Studio. And as I mentioned at the beginning, check out Iowa podcast.com. Check out the interview with Beth Koonin, with Dentons Davis Brown Law, and she adds a ton of great value with your recruiting and hiring strategy, and how to maximize that opportunity and minimize the risk. We’ll see you on the next episode.